Monday, June 30, 2008

I hate Linux Graphics

Alright, so as soon as I started bitching about graphics, my coworker, lets just call him Linux Graphics Hater (warm applause everyone! ready those tomatoes!), went off on a rant the technical reasons why open source ATI and intel drivers still suck ass. He also corrected me that nvidia might actually be making money from some of these linux drivers. Good for them, but as long as they're still kind of hiding the fact that they're only really doing it for their paying customers, I think it supports my overall point.

Anyways, without further ado, I present Linux Graphics Hater's inaugural rant...

So, everyone keeps ranting on about how wonderful it is that Intel and ATI have open drivers and specs and how nvidia needs to get with the program and how they won't buy nvidia parts anymore.

Now, hang on a second - if you are lucky enough to have an intel/ati system and an nvidia system sitting side by side, you can play along, but otherwise, read on.

Run glxinfo on each machine and compare the output - I think you'll find the results... instructive, but let's ask ourselves a series of questions.

  • Which driver(s) support pbuffers
  • Which driver(s) support framebuffer objects
  • Which driver(s) support GLSL (shaders)
  • Which driver(s) support redirected Direct Rendering
  • Which driver(s) offer full OpenGL 2.1 with hardware acceleration
  • Which driver(s) offer full GLX 1.4 with hardware acceleration

If you've spent any time trying to do any OpenGL work, you'll know the answers to these questions - and it's the same answer to all of them. The nvidia driver is the only one out there that actually has full OpenGL support. The Mesa guys will happily tell you how it supports the full 2.1 spec as well - and then mumble something about a software renderer - yes that's right, as long as you don't need any hardware acceleration, Mesa is the tool for you - or maybe we should reevaluate who the tool is...

The sad truth is that none of the open source drivers actually offer the hooks necessary to enable full OpenGL support, even when the hardware itself is capable. Publishing documentation and having paid fulltime developers in house has not fixed this problem for either ATI or Intel. (Full disclosure, the closed-source ATI drivers have support for some of these features but no freetard is interested in them anymore). Why? Because there's no infrastructure - the Linux DRI/DRM layer is broken and efforts to fix it continue at a glacial pace.

How did nvidia avoid this? They bypassed it completely - the nvidia driver may look like a regular Xorg video driver but it's actually very invasive and replaces the bottom third of the X server (Most bits of X are driven through overridable function tables - glorious eh?). They had no choice: You can have the world's most awesome hardware and developers but if you have to be compatible with DRI/DRM - you're screwed and none of that will help you.

It's a crude approximation but the most crucial difference between the nvidia architecture and DRI/DRM is that nvidia actually have a memory manager - and a unified one at that. Without a memory manager it's impossible to allocate offscreen buffers (hence, no pbuffers or fbos) and without a unified memory manager it's impossible to reconcile 2D and 3D operations (hence no redirected Direct Rendering). The Accelerated Indirect GLX feature that the freetards were busy raving about is an endless source of confusion - and ultimately a hack to workaround their lack of a memory manager.

Indirect rendering is when a GL application delegates 3d operations to the X server instead of talking directly to the 3D driver. This makes operations slower, but not necessarily unusably slow - as long as the X server itself is capable of talking to the 3D driver and making hardware accelerated calls. Now, in DRI/DRM land, the X server originally *could not* talk to the 3D driver because only one direct client could run at a time - so the server itself was excluded because most people wanted their 3D apps to do the talking. However, they realised that if they forced all 3D apps to use indirect rendering, they could avoid the need for a memory manager because the X server itself acts as a single point of control over all 2D and 3D rendering - so they went and fixed things so that the Server could be a 3D client and accelerate indirect rendering, and thus AIGLX the born as a feature to be shouted about from the rooftops. Never mind that 3D apps would then have to use indirect rendering and be slowed down. Never mind that nvidia's driver offered Accelerated Indirect Rendering from day one back in 2000. Never mind that nvidia don't need to use it because they can do redirected direct rendering properly.

So, this is clearly a problem and they're not fools, so they've been trying to fix it - for how many years? Even today, despite all the apparent appearances of progress, if you go out and install the latest release of your favourite distro, you will get a memory manager-less driver and no support for any of these features. Only if you go and dig into exotic experimental branches of drivers and mesa, and apply patches to your kernel tree, will you get something that vaguely approximates a memory-manager equipped driver and only for a subset of the 'supported' intel/ati hardware. That's just great.

So, why do you think nvidia doesn't give two shits about the all the petitions and ranting and pleading and threats to go use someone elses hardware? Guess what - they write linux drivers because paying customers want them - and these places do serious rendering and need these full OpenGL features - otherwise nvidia wouldn't have added them in the first place! They aren't going to give you the time of day when you come to them with your shitty little open source driver that doesn't support features invented over 10 years ago (pbuffers at SGI - 1997)

And fuck, why do my nvidia boxes suspend/resume successfully while my Intel graphics one has to run an old patched driver because the latest one hangs on resume. Fucking awesome. Good work guys.

376 flames:

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Anonymous said...

Great post!

Anonymous said...

Maybe that's why nvidia doesn't want to open their driver.
It seems they put quite a lot in that driver (unlike some others), besides the regular HW communication stuff.

No wonder at all.

Anonymous said...

Awesome post !
i'm going for nvidia too next time i have the chance, have had enough with ati troubles, but so far i'm stuck with it.
Is the proprietary ati driver affected by that too ? i'm using it and glxinfo contains :
OpenGL version string: 2.1.7412 Release
GLX_SGIX_pbuffer GL_EXT_framebuffer_object
so at least those 3 seem to work, or am i overlooking something ?
(ubuntu hardy, ATI MOBILITY RADEON X700)

thecodewitch said...

I long ago learned to expect very little from linux 3D. Its interesting to see nothing has changed.

The one time it didn't disappoint me was when I picked up a linux driver from nvidia years ago (when I was running Mandrake 10). It was painless to install, worked well, and as a result I was able to get some 3D development done on my linux box (until I got sick of KDevelop)

As a result, if anything, the open source "community" should be immensely grateful to nvidia. NVidia freely offers linux drivers that work well and don't waste your time when you install them, and as a result, has done linux a huge favour by making it look easy and pleasant to use.

So I got sucked in, and continued to remain a linux user. Eventually, I got sick of wasting weeks sifting through the jumble of nonsense when trying to do other things with linux, things that are almost effortless on other operating systems.

LGHater said...

I know it's not the style of the Hater in Chief to reply to comments but I'm not him, so there.

With respect to the fglrx drivers (the ati closed source ones), they are partially built on top of DRI/DRM. I assume that the primary area of difference is the memory management which allows them to offer full 2.1 support. I did briefly mention this fact.

Of course, the main problem with ATI is that they can't write decent drivers on *any* platform.

Anonymous said...

I use nVidia gear because their stuff works. I am not going to change b/c these fat (or obsurdly skinny) lunatic hippie's living in their mothers basements want to rip on nVidia so they sound important.

I like using Linux because I find it a little more flexible (but the enjoyment stops there), but thats only because the big O/S focus on fool proofing their systems and you loose a little bit of flexibility there. No big deal, thats great for non technical people. But most of the time OSS hackers just can't get their shit together and do anything right. They whine back and forth at each other and nothing gets done.

At least with the closed source software there is usually a business need and the boss says do it, make it work, or your fired, fuck off. OSS hackers will just keep whining back and froth with each other b/c there is no boss to step in and shut them the fuck up. So we wind up getting nowhere, nowhere at all. Fuck em'. I am tired of fighting with shit that doesn't work.

They complain about Windows but you know what, I have two great big monitors, high end (optical) audio and tv cards (HDTV), DVD and BlueRay players wireless networking, wonderful 5.1 surround sound for my many games (you know b/c they actually make games for windows) movies and tv, 2 printers, a scanner, digital camera, and more all on a custom built Vista box and it works fucking great. It's fanfuckingtastic. It doesn't crash and everything things works and I didn't have to compile anything or download any drivers manually. Everything, every single thing just worked when I plugged them in.

I have a second box for Linux stuff... which I hardly use anymore because I am tired of fighting with it. I have a life to live and enjoy. I am not going to waste anymore of it dicking around with Linux. My time is to valuable to me.

Spend a few hundred bucks for an OS that works and get on with your life. After watching Linux go nowhere for 10 years, actually watching it go backwards many times, I woke up. Whatever, to each his own. I choose to take my time back for myself.

It's funny its kind of like communism. The community shares everything. Its great in theory... what really happens, everyone bitches, gets lazy, and we wind up back in the stone ages. Screw that shit.

Great post by the way. I didn't know nVidia went to such great lenghts to provide a working solution. More power to them.

Thank you nVidia for being one of the only products on Linux that actually works!

Mark said...

A rather pointless post. The Nvidia drivers for Linux work extremely well and always have done in my experience. So use them. The rest is simply hot air. A more pertinent question would be what you can actually use them for, on Linux, i.e. software that uses 3D.

It's not surprising that a certain type of person doesn't like Linux. As it doesn't cost anything, it gives them very little opportunity to show off the equivalent of gold-plated taps, silk rugs in gaudy colors and B&O hifi, not forgetting the huge TV with gold and diamante surround in the corner of the lounge. One surmises such people prefer Macs because being being overcharged at every turn by King Steve must be proof that they are very important people.

Daengbo said...

NVidia was the default 3D card on Linux for many years ... as long as I can remember, actually (my foggy memory going back to the late 90s). They deserved it. They were the only decent player in the market.

ATI had some attempts to enter into the market but their "one foot in, one foot out" strategy failed miserably.

That situation has changed, though, and NVidia's closed-source driver started to show its weaknesses when people had extreme trouble getting the driver to load on newer kernels through the beginning of 2008. Some of the kernel internals apparently conflicted with it.

ATI's new generation driver, however, even in its infancy, didn't have that problem. The driver is less than a year old, though, which means that it's not really useful for fully-accelerated stuff. Give it till the end of the year. Comparing NVidia's closed driver to a brand new open driver isn't really fair.

Intel's drivers are rock solid. You can't fault them. The chipsets, though, a bottom-end, integrated chips with shared memory. How much performance are you going to expect from them.

What you can say for certain is that, when X goes a-crashin', no one is going to be able to help you if you've got the NVidia driver loaded. There'll be some guessing and hand waving, but that's about it. The open drivers can be traced and the kernel devs will work to determine where the bug lies.

THAT'S why having an open kernel is important.

Anonymous said...

@daengbo
Why the fuck should anyone wait for another year? People need to to things NOW, not in some abstract point in the future.

Linux has always been about it's potential for greatness, and it hasn't been realized for the last 20 years. In short - It is DEAD.

Stop fucking with the dead corpse of Linux, and move on to an OS that actually works.

Death to Linux! Death to X.org! Death to Gnome!

Anonymous said...

linuxhater : If only you could understand that these are the kind of rants we subscribe to your blog to , not a daily dose of rants.

You don't HAVE to rant EVERY FUCKING DAY. Rant when you have stuff within you and make well reasoned rants or really fucking funny ones (like you used to ... your quality is very erratic nowadays some real gems some real @*$##!)

Maybe if you did that I would come to your blog and click on the ads once in a while.



Awesome post!!!

Steve Chow said...

The specs for the ATI cards have only been recently released, the reason the open source drivers suck is because up until now they've largely been reverse engineered ;) Sorry.

Anonymous said...

Please don't post cluefull posts like this in the future. You have already attracted a lot of FOSS developers as readers. Now you just have to annoy them enough to make them stop hacking for good. Not motivate them by writing insightful stuff like this shit.

So - baseless allegations, hand waiving, and pointless flaming. More of that please.

I thought you really cared about bringing Linux down.

Pedro Francisco said...

ROFL @ anonymous above me.

Of course, I'd like you'd do the opposite. This article was very insightful and, though I don't know shit of OpenGL inner workings, made me sympathise with Nvidia and its closed source driver. Though I use an almighty Intel :P

So please, do continue with the detailed and cluefull posts ^^

tuomov said...

The FOSS herd and elite hate to have a clue of anything. Clueful posts aren't going to matter. The epidemic NIH syndrome will ensure that they'll choose the worst solution possible. Worse, they'll replace the better and already existing time-tested solutions with them, just to increase their power and reputation among the herd.

ensi said...

I've been saying this for years. The X shit needs to go. Its all been just a giant hack and set of kludges stacked onto each other into a festering pile of crap.
By replacing X with a more integrated modern shell you could knock out a whole bunch of problems for example copy/paste, crappy periphreal support and ofc 3d rendering.

tuomov said...

"The X shit needs to go. Its all been just a giant hack and set of kludges"

I think the core of X is quite sound -- the best windowing system there has been. It's the idiotic way the new extensions have been done, that's the problem. If the current FOSS elite were to replace X, it would suck big time. It would be just another OS X/Windows clone, that would not offer the essential choice of a WM -- the only thing that's keeping me from switching to Windows -- and so on.

X could be improved in many ways without awful kludges, by removing unnecessary restrictions, but instead the current elite chooses to write layers upon layers of complex and incompatible extensions. E.g. the original xrandr (X resize and rotate extension) was incompatible with xinerama, but I was happy with that, because I don't want xinerama crap for my telly, which is best modelled as a completely separate screen, not as box of a single megascreen. Now in 1.2 Keith Packard made xrandr xinerama only, and to rotate my TFT, I would have to share a single massive root window (equals screen in traditional X) among the completely separate telly and TFT, causing various problems with applications and wasting video memory for the unused space of the rectangular megascreen. Instead of the Xinerama madness -- that only provides a multi-view to a single-display model, instead of a multi-display model -- it would be far better to remove artificial restrictions in X that disallow moving windows between different screens/root windows, make the creation of root windows dynamic through the same function that creates any other windows, and so on. It's much the same with fonts. But no, these asshats just keep piling anti-choice kludges upon anti-choice kludges.

jc-denton said...

Can't agree more, this post is really great!

haywire'd said...

@tuomov

I don't think the choice of WM is what is the main issue in X, its the whole desktop environment thing, you have the cludgy, slow gnome, the cludgy, slow KDE, or the fast but doesn't-even-have-an-sftp-client XFCE. You can use other WMs like e, fluxbox, etc etc, but at the end of the day, running a gnome program (like an sftp client, nautilus) is going to feel hacky and out of place. I don't believe there to be a good, fast, working, complete feeling graphical environment for linux, yet, unlike windows and osx has had for years.

Linux needs graphical, interrupt based things as options in the kernel, like windows, else it will just be a bunch of frontends for command line apps.

tuomov said...

"I don't believe there to be a good, fast, working, complete feeling graphical environment for linux, yet, unlike windows and osx has had for years."

They're working on that - and destroying the possibility for alternatives in the process. They're turning Linux into a Windows/OS X, so there will be no point in using Linux anymore. I didn't switch to Linux to get a "free" Windows clone, I switched to it to get something else, which it increasingly no longer is.

"Linux needs graphical, interrupt based things as options in the kernel, like windows, else it will just be a bunch of frontends for command line apps."

The implementation of the windowing system has little to do with integration of application interfaces. Why Windows has more integrated applications, is that Microsoft/Apple provide The One True Toolkit -- although e.g. gtk does run on Windows, and many applications use their own skinning. Even Apple's own video player software (whatwasitcalled) looks different from the rest of the programs. X, OTOH, is simply a graphics/input server used by many different desktop environments providing their own One True Way.

More stuff should be taken away from the kernel. Micro- or even exokernels, thank you, rather than the unmanageable monolith that Linux has become.

Dries Desmet said...

Excellent post. As a professional 3D content creator I have been using linux for 5 odd years now. I have had high hopes for the situation to lighten up, but reading your post today has made me realise that I'm only still using linux because of it's scriptability. Everything else I'm happy about has to do with the excellent developer of the proprietary 3D software package Houdini, from sidefx. From day 1 nvidia was the only option if you wanted to do proper 3D. And ah, I felt so proud at first when I could tell people about linux and how it got 3D accelartion earlier than Vista had. Vista's 3D accelartion works excellent nowadays. Linux's wobbly windows still is incompatible with my beloved OpenGL software. That's IS the sad situation today. Since Houdini houdini has been ported to OS X lately, I'm really switchin over now.
Nope, linux indeed didn't make a lot of progress those last 5 years. Nvidia did.

Anonymous said...

In the mean time, tons of open source developers are screaming to help out. But they can't because nvidia and ATI (until recently) have denied requests to open their hardware specification. It is very hard to develop a driver by reverse engineering the gpu bit by bit. For this reason nvidia and ATI tried to develop a closed source driver. However, being close source in an open source environment is just a waste of resources. You have a handful of payed developers on a thight budget to do what tons of skilled volunteers (hey, developers want to game too you know) would desperatly get their hands on. Thankfully, ATI already got the message. The next hurdle is X performance. The recent GLX hype has resulted in quite a steep developmentstream, but we are not quite there yet. The X server is indeed a legacy program that will take some time to modernize.

tuomov said...

"The X server is indeed a legacy program that will take some time to modernize."

You mean turn it into a pile of steaming shit? That's what "modern" is an euphemism for.

Kevin said...

tuomov: "it would be far better to remove artificial restrictions in X that disallow moving windows between different screens/root windows, make the creation of root windows dynamic through the same function that creates any other windows, and so on."

yes absolutely!

Anonymous said...

When you say "So, this is clearly a problem and they're not fools, so they've been trying to fix it - for how many years?" you could also mention Tungsten Graphics work is pretty new... and for the first time we have something *real* to fix the problems.

http://lwn.net/Articles/257417/
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=search&q=Gallium3D
http://www.tungstengraphics.com/wiki/index.php/Gallium3D

But yes, the current situation is... well, I use a nvidia card.

Anonymous said...

Oh yes... right there... the hate feels so good...

Jengu said...

Saying that the NEW open source ATI open source driver, 'radeonhd', doesn't yet have full OpenGL support is a total potshot. The specs have only been out for what, two months? Three months? I'd like to see you code a full functioning driver during that time.

Also, the intel driver on WINDOWS doesn't support pbuffers, let alone the linux ones. Hell, the windows intel drivers just got hardware T&L support. Intel is behind in the driver race on all platforms, but they're getting better.

Work on Gallium is also underway -- which will let cards accelerate OpenGL and OpenVG (for 2D SVGs and such) and whatever else on a single driver, something no other platform yet can do. Oh, and shaders will be LLVM compiled, so they will run faster than on other platforms too. And there's Glucose. And the new memory manager (which the intel driver DOES use), and the reverse engineered nvidia nouveau driver, and... well, there's a shit ton of development going on. I would call it anything but glacial.

Anonymous said...

When AIGLX came out, Nvidia threw its support behind it instead of XGL. Why?

(I have no clue.. hoping for someone else to explain)

Anonymous said...

Anonymous re. AIGLX:

XGL's an X server running on top of GL, that implements some extra features that compiz needs. As a result, it only exposes the GL features it chooses to implement indirectly. Hence everyone gets access to a poorly accelerated subset of GL, which doesn't make a practical difference for Intel... but would basically make nVidia's far superior GL inaccessible.

nVidia implemented the compiz-required features too, and hence with nVidia you can use compix without XGL *or* AIGLX. Because AIGLX implements the features in the main X server for non-nVidia cards, distros aren't enabling XGL by default, hence it's much easier for people to use nVidia's GPUs properly.

Anonymous said...

If unsupported features were the only problem I would be very hapy with my intel GM965. There are bugs that cause the xserver to crash. With most of them you need a reboot to start it again.

Anonymous said...

Nvidia's suspend had been working for me. Now it's broken again. They actually had it working while the machine was docked but that's broken too.

Ramalho said...

Well... If you hate linux so much you can just move along and don't use it at all. Do like some of the other commenters:

1) Go to some stupid computer shop and buy one copy of Windows Vista
2) install it
3) be happy and leave all the other alone in their miserable lives..

Be constructive, or just STFU!

An alternative will be a Mac, and STFU as well. Just works as Steve says right?

Stop moaning! Have sex! Smoke a joint while doing it! It helps, and you can have a good reason to moan... a bit differently, but it's still... moaning...

Just stop with stupid posts and awfully stupid blog.

Hatred is a bad feeling!

C ya!

RemoteUser said...

I probably know less about X than anybody here but I do know one thing about X that makes it work for me and nobody has mentioned it.

X is a display protocol based upon the TCP/IP network protocol.

I work at home but I sell point of sale systems to people all over the world, and I can support them as if they were all located in my home because of X.

Without X I would be screwed.

AndyC said...

@tuomov
"They're working on that - and destroying the possibility for alternatives in the process. They're turning Linux into a Windows/OS X, so there will be no point in using Linux anymore."

Those who don't use Windows are destined to reinvent it, badly. N'est pas?

@RemoteUser
It's not like that problem hasn't been solved just as well without having to send everything through the TCP/IP stack all the time - RDP, VNC etc

Diego Calleja said...

It's a shame that nvidia drivers are told to be the main cause of hangs on windows, according to microsoft. And if they don't care about making stable drivers, do they care about Linux? No. That's why the nvidia driver is known to cause many bugs

In the other hand, the intel driver is stable here. Including suspend & resume. That's why I don't even bother with nvidia. I don't use GL, not even compiz, so...

RemoteUser said...

AndyC;

VNC and RDP are not instantaneous like X is. I use touchscreens, too. X doesn't have to draw every screen over and over again. If any other remote display protocol was anywhere near as fast as X is then I would use it.

Excalibre said...

It's not surprising that a certain type of person doesn't like Linux. As it doesn't cost anything, it gives them very little opportunity to show off the equivalent of gold-plated taps, silk rugs in gaudy colors and B&O hifi, not forgetting the huge TV with gold and diamante surround in the corner of the lounge. One surmises such people prefer Macs because being being overcharged at every turn by King Steve must be proof that they are very important people.

Always the same answer with Linux enthusiasts, huh? If something doesn't work on Linux that works on every other operating system, well, don't do it. If you want to do it, it reflects some moral failing on your part.

Switched to Linux eight months ago; trying hard to make a go of it but Mr. Hater here is pretty much right on target most of the time and if you guys need to see it and start fixing the shit he's complaining about unless you're fine with Linux remaining a second-rate second choice that's only used by a tiny number of people because of their irrational hatred for Microsoft.

Anonymous said...

Hey, looks like LWN linked to this article:
http://lwn.net/Articles/288098/

And judging by the comments, some people in the kernel dev community agree that Linux graphics suck ass...

Jengu said...

Excalibre: You fundamentally don't get it. You can't demand that people start fixing X, Y, and Z, threatening that Linux will become a second choice platform, because 'Linux' is not a private company or even a conglomeration of companies.

That sort of logic only makes sense when speaking directly to a commercial venture. You're not a paying customer making demands here, you're complaining about something that lots of volunteers helped put together for FREE. You don't have a dollar to stand on in this instance. Xorg, Wine, the kernel, KDE, Gnome, etc. have many unpaid developers and even those open source projects that do have some/many paid developers are still very community driven. Ubuntu for example has a commercial company behind it, Canonical, but it's still layered on Debian and depends on volunteer contributors for lots of its packages.

You seem to have this image in your head that there's a bunch of hackers sitting around working on irrelevancies and if somebody would just kick their asses in the right direction, say a good corporate manager, then Linux would rise to desktop stardom (a shitload of people do use Linux already by the way -- on the server and on their cell phones). But the truth is Linux has only gotten as far as it has by following this methodology -- source code open to all, hackers hack on what they want to hack on, bug reporting and fixing is kept open, companies paying programmers to help when it serves their interest, etc.

When I started using Linux 4 years ago I started on a laptop that under Linux didn't have working wireless, sound, or 3D, and my boot time was over 4 minutes. And the laptop was a few years old at the time. Now of course years later everything works perfectly (and boot < 1 minute). But I recently bought a new laptop, and suspend, wireless, and sound worked out of the box. So based on my personal experience I'd say the rate of progress is accelerating.

tuomov said...

"you're complaining about something that lots of volunteers helped put together for FREE."

That's a popular FOSS fallacy and utter and total bullshit. Most of the elite developers of the major projects that define the overall course of FOSS-basd systems, get paid for doing what the do -- ruining what once was a decent OS, and could've been a great OS.

"So based on my personal experience I'd say the rate of progress is accelerating."

No, the rate of regress is accelerating. With the piece of shit udev, my boot time has increased double-fold. And hibernate simply doesn't work with encrypted swap: you're expected to build fucking initrds for that.

tuomov said...

"bug reporting and fixing is kept open"

Oh, and I don't call registration-required Suckzilla an open bug tracker. I refuse to report bugs to projects that require me to use webshit (instead of, say, email) to report bugs, and of all things, require me to create an account on that webshit.

Excalibre said...

Excalibre: You fundamentally don't get it. You can't demand that people start fixing X, Y, and Z, threatening that Linux will become a second choice platform, because 'Linux' is not a private company or even a conglomeration of companies.

That sort of logic only makes sense when speaking directly to a commercial venture. You're not a paying customer making demands here, you're complaining about something that lots of volunteers helped put together for FREE.

Oops, sorry, don't care. 3d is dysfunctional on Linux at this point; the (as Mr. Hater delightfully terms them) 'freetards' are now castigating the only company that's provided the platform with usable 3d, and then one of them pops up in here to tell us all that we're morally flawed if we want 3d support anyway.

That's what I was responding to and if you can't see the problem with the continued insistence that potential users are morally obligated to give up on anything Linux doesn't currently do well, you're, quite frankly, an idiot.

Anonymous said...

"With the piece of shit udev, my boot time has increased double-fold."

Bullshit. Show me the bootchart measurements.

"And hibernate simply doesn't work with encrypted swap: you're expected to build fucking initrds for that."

So why don't you use an initrd? On any decent modern distro, an initrd is the default setup.

"I refuse to report bugs to projects that [...] require me to create an account"

Congratulations, you are a USDA certified grade-A asshole! Now, go choke on a bucket of cocks.

tuomov said...

"Bullshit. Show me the bootchart measurements."

All I know is it waits a minute, probably recreating /dev from its cryptic configuration files, that have made it difficult for users to configure device permissions or symlinks, in practise having to succumb using the crappy defaults that the distros provide. Udev is another totally clueless kludge that adds layers upon layers of complexity. No longer does the same chmod, chown, and ln -s work all over the system; you have to use different cryptic means for /dev. Not the way to design a usable operating system, everything being a special case, with no common principles.

"So why don't you use an initrd? On any decent modern distro, an initrd is the default setup."

In my experience, distros' initrds aren't good enough for encrypted swap hibernate. You have to build your own. And, besides, the distros stock kernels are useless, using the kernel-devs-gone-fuckwits' libata random scsi-mapping SATA drivers that have trouble with noflushd, hddtemp, and whatnot, and do not have predictable mappings at boot (without the moronic udev), unlike the older hdx SATA drivers.

"Congratulations, you are a USDA certified grade-A asshole! Now, go choke on a bucket of cocks. "

Anyone using Suckzilla has clearly and loudly stated he does not want my bug reports. So I comply.

Anonymous said...

Hello! I'm a Linux user!
I'm so happy! I'm so l33t!
Now I can eh.... browse the web, without embedded media... and.... chat! using Pidign! and skype! ehh... but without msn chats, or webcam..
What else can I do? I can fix bugs!
What else can I do with my wonderful free OS?
Eh....
Eh...

That's it, I guess.


P.S.
I've just found out!
I can anal rape myself with an eggplant! I'll shape it like Tux, and shove it up my ass until I'll bleed! w00t! I'm now officially part of the cool Linux Hax0rz community!

Anonymous said...

...

for my many games (you know b/c they actually make games for windows)

...

hardly use anymore because I am tired of fighting with it. I have a life to live and enjoy. I am not going to waste anymore of it dicking around with Linux. My time is to valuable to me.

...

Just stupid. Get a real life and don't waste your valuable time playing games and writing boring comments.

Anonymous said...

For the curious:

XGL is not actually an X server that indirectly implements a restricted subset of poorly restricted GL commands. As far as I understand, it's just an X server, that has a fullscreen OpenGL window, and it converts all X window draw commands into OpenGL.

Whereas AIGLX is what indirectly integrates GL commands into the X server. And a subset at that, and arguably, less well implemented.

XGL runs with any kind of 3D card, because it's just an OpenGL window. Intel, Nvidia, ATI -- any OpenGL card works with XGL.

The problem is not that XGL poorly implements a subset of OpenGL commands -- the problem is that it only implements a subset of XOrg commands. It is an entirely new Xserver, after all, and duplicating the functionality isn't perfect.

The reason why NVidia doesn't like it, is because for them, it is redundant. Their custom X server unifies 3D and 2D drawing in a way that even AIGLX can't dream of, and running a plain OpenGL window on top of the normal Xserver (which is what XGL would do) is redundant for them. Just use their Xserver, don't create a second OpenGL window on top of one.

Developmentally it is also redundant, as it would siphon effort away from Xorg.

Architecturally, it's sound. Any card that can make an OpenGL window could accelerate X. No need to write specific AIGLX-supporting drivers for Xorg.

Anonymous said...

this a very smart article, thank you

jombra said...

Interesting article. It surely puts a finger straight in an open wound.
But it lost track.
From my experience professional sites need open source drivers to get out of the killing dependency matrices.
You know that for support you have to chose from some special distribution kernels, you have to fulfill requirement by applications, closed sorce drivers from others (e.g. HBAs) and than try to fix as many vulnerabilities as possible (you can not stay one year with the same kernel even if you don´t change HW or SW).
I was responsible for 3000 graphics workstations and know how nice this game is - even if you get latest cards months before even reviews do appear and you get directly special pre-beta-drivers.
Privately, I don´t need full 3D.
And I use Linux as desktop system since 1994 (100% - no Windows or anything else at home - only as corporate desktop).
But I want and need to use latest kernels.
I played 3D games under Linux - but nVidia screwed everything up for my old card when starting to support 2.6 kernels - and don´t expect them to answer my detailed bug report (they fixed problems before - and realy stupid things which should never show up in a final driver) and later even threw out support for my card from the `universal´ driver.
So paint the picture correctly:
Open source drivers are a must - not a nice to have - for professionals in 1st line but also for the personal desktop.
And yes - the freedom card pays of, if one likes it or not.
Look at Vista/Mac OS. Linux is ahead of both in many ways by years.
But from my point of view you are right: graphics still lacks severe.
And one source of this was to allow closed source drivers which can not be fixed and no common infrastructure be made.
So nVidia - your effort is useless until you play in the open.
If you miss the train right now, you won´t catch up in the future.

Tuxie said...

Thank you for a great post! I've been using Linux as my main desktop OS (and still does) without dual boot since 1996 and I almost fully agree with your post. I do use the proprietary Nvidia driver because with it, most things work great right NOW, but I very very much would prefer the driver to be Open Source and the necessary improvements put into X core instead of the Nvidia driver so I can switch to ATI, Intel or some other brand at anytime without losing important features.

Anonymous said...

ur head u hopeless
u mad man
monkey donkey
dog's tail
everything bad in this world is the author of this post
don't u have any work or job

Anonymous said...

who the hell u r to say that to LINUX

Alexei said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Alexei said...

Well said, my anonymous brother!
Who does he think he is to criticize holy Linux, which is the best OS, lightyears ahead of anything anyone ever released - by definition! (even if there's no OS named simply "Linux" in reality)

Anonymous said...

my sarcasm detector is broken, therefore:
Linux is the single worst OS currently at the market, from every possible view, sans cost, and even that is not true anymore, since freeBSD is more secure, and Solaris is a better file/web server.

Linux (as a kernel), is a monstrosity, and Linux (as the free software stack), is unusable, slow, lacking in functionality, and technologically inferior.


Linux is dead.

Виталий Лопатин (Vitls) said...

Hey stupids! Are you dislike Linux? Just you cannt to cook it.

I'm using both nVidia (7600 series) and ATi (x1300) graphics cards. I HAVE NO any troubles with different games (native or windows), 3d applications and so on.

I don't worry about closed drivers. Id the program works fine, it can be open or close.

Anonymous said...

I would love to see a response to some of these posts from some of the big names in open source software. If there is a place for them to see what their end users need, this is the place.

People like Richard Stallman, who barely uses a web browser, and hardly ever leaves Emacs, are clueless as to what people actually want.

I don't know that any of them care for the end users as much as they care about a license (gpl) or a methodology for organizing distributed do-it-yourself code. These are their customers, not the end users.

Jester said...

Excellent post and one that far more Linux opensource graphics developers need to read and grok.

Linus Torvalds said...

Bug Report:
-- Problem:
FOSS software is a cluster fuck due to incompatibilities on the ideological layer.
-- Proposed Solution:
Grow the fuck up.

Anonymous said...

There's not a chance in hell X.org or more importantly Linux Graphics will be fixed in the near future.

1- There's no one to impose his design on the X.org devs, scrap the whole spaghetti code and start on sane and modern principles (why do you think Apple didn't simply base what would become Aqua on X 10 years ago?)

2- There is no rich backer to pay the devs (you were really thinking that the most important Linux kernel devs were coding for free?). After all IBM (for instance) doesn't exactly need X.org to run Linux on its servers and mainframes.


Hackers like RMS never recovered from the late 1970s's revolution: from them on, software could be sold. 30 years afterward, they have forgotten nothing and learned nothing.

Ron said...

Linux has graphics? I thought Linux was only for CLI nerdfans. Buy a MAC.

tuomov said...

"Linux has graphics? I thought Linux was only for CLI nerdfans. Buy a MAC."

I wish it was only for "CLI nerdfans". But it's increasingly being ruined by making a sorry attempt at bringing it to the masses. All operating systems are turned into the same shit; there's no real choice, no real diversity. Entropy decreases in the universe.

beniwtv said...

wow... just wow... This blog is worse than I thought...

C'mon people, if you don't like Linux, just don't use it. Ranting will not help anyone, not even Microsoft.

Why can't people accept some people use Linux, because there's no other OS that fits their needs?

Story: I recently set up a media center. The goal was to let it be as easy to use as a DVD player for my parents to use.

So I installed everything in Linux, modified a ton of programs or scripts to be EXACTLY like I wanted.

I couldn't have done this with Windows or Mac, because, ummm..., they don't want me to change the OS code, and so it's not open. And don't tell me to use Windows Media center, which is just a joke.

End result: Parents happy.

Oh, and btw, my laptop works 100% with Ubuntu
out of the box, with it doesn't in Windows. But yeah, "use your oh so beloved Windows OS", I don't care, until something better than Linux comes up, I'll be using Linux.

Period. Get a life.

Some Random Geek said...

One word : Envy

Opened, selected automatic, next thing i know, i have a full 1440 res wide screen.
Oh yeah, did i mention there were no frglx framebuffer stuff running circles on my screen?
Grow up kiddo!

Anonymous said...

lol what a noob

Anonymous said...

yeah the linux kernel is slow and insecure.
that's why google uses windows and mac os x.

well, if you don't like it don't use it.

who told you that people like the ones bashing foss in this failed blog are wanted in the community anyway?

Anonymous said...

Ohh what a losers blog. This nerd hates Linux graphics. Just a piece of sh#t

Jengu said...

tuomov, we could exchange hearsay comments forever about what things have improved on our systems and what haven't, but like I said my experience has overall been better over the last 4 years, with more hardware compatibility rather than worse. You may have had particularly bad luck for your hardware, or I may have had particularly good luck for mine, but only a comprehensive study could say for certain. If you know of one, please cite it. For what it's worth I've installed Linux on a variety of desktops and laptops and have had no more problems than I have with Windows, often less. Also as I said, my boot time has lessened substantially and I'm running udev.

Your argument doesn't seem very coherent overall -- what does making linux work well for the masses have to do with regressions in hardware compatibility?

I think you still have a misunderstanding about how developers are paid. The vast majority of software on any linux distro probably has more community hands in it than paid developers. Even if this is not the case, the paid developers are spread across many companies and organizations, there is no single company that you can say needs to be pushing things more in direction X, rather, things are pushed along in general by each of the companies pursuing their own interests and each of the community developers pursuing their interests.

I still think the whole discussion is silly -- Xorg is very active now, with many balls in the air as it were, certainly more so than XFree86 ever was.

Anonymous said...

Don't everybody see??? The writer of this blog eventually a Linux user but he just hate it.

Anonymous said...

tuomov, man you are right on so many points. As soon as I mention crap like hal xml configs that will replace half of /etc, udev, elektra or -insert a load of crap here- I get flamed by just about every "Linux user". I enjoyed Linux for a while and I'm sad to see it become a monstrosity.

Gryffus said...

Hey you Linux haters, can you do this in windows?
Do linux save your time? Say no u lolz :-))
I love the part with outlook express lol...
Linux is on top of food chain... There are no questions about it... :-) Just ownz :-)

Corbin Simpson said...

Howdy.

You're decently informed, although a bit behind the times.

radeonhd has issues that prevent it from being immediately useful. Use radeon (xf86-video-ati) instead.

DRI2, along with GEM/TTM (memory management), is almost ready to be merged into the main development trees, for Intel chipsets. Radeon chipsets and nVidia chipsets (through the nouveau project) are in the works.

Oh, and Mesa 7.1 will support all Radeons up to the X1950 XT.

Thanks for the bug report.

~ C.

Anonymous said...

You are so stupid! Linux is awesome!

Anonymous said...

"But I recently bought a new laptop, and suspend, wireless, and sound worked out of the box."

Jesus christ, all that shit worked out of the box with my old Powerbook too and you know what? I wasn't fucking shocked because I expected it to work.

Plus it had al the UNIX goodness of OSX

Alejandro Nova said...

AWESOME. Between your lines I found the ultimate cause of my NVIDIA KDE 4.1 sluggishness. To cure it I simply asked KWin to stop going the indirect route and go the DIRECT route. So, I switched from turtle-speed to blazing speed with a click of my mouse. AWESOME!

We should hate Linux more... after all, love and hate are the opposite extremes of the same feeling. I'd be worried if you used Windows and didn't care about Linux.

Anonymous said...

Strange LH, my fglrx driver for ATI X1400 (a two year old card) supports pretty much all you said about nvidia. Can you publish your glxinfo output for nvidia so we can compare?

name of display: :0.0
display: :0 screen: 0
direct rendering: Yes
server glx vendor string: SGI
server glx version string: 1.2
server glx extensions:
GLX_ARB_multisample, GLX_EXT_import_context, GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap,
GLX_EXT_visual_info, GLX_EXT_visual_rating, GLX_OML_swap_method,
GLX_SGIS_multisample, GLX_SGIX_fbconfig, GLX_SGIX_visual_select_group
client glx vendor string: SGI
client glx version string: 1.4
client glx extensions:
GLX_ARB_get_proc_address, GLX_ARB_multisample, GLX_EXT_import_context,
GLX_EXT_visual_info, GLX_EXT_visual_rating, GLX_MESA_allocate_memory,
GLX_MESA_swap_control, GLX_MESA_swap_frame_usage, GLX_OML_swap_method,
GLX_OML_sync_control, GLX_SGI_make_current_read, GLX_SGI_swap_control,
GLX_SGI_video_sync, GLX_SGIS_multisample, GLX_SGIX_fbconfig,
GLX_SGIX_pbuffer, GLX_SGIX_visual_select_group,
GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap
GLX version: 1.2
GLX extensions:
GLX_ARB_get_proc_address, GLX_ARB_multisample, GLX_EXT_import_context,
GLX_EXT_visual_info, GLX_EXT_visual_rating, GLX_OML_swap_method,
GLX_SGIS_multisample, GLX_SGIX_fbconfig, GLX_SGIX_visual_select_group
OpenGL vendor string: ATI Technologies Inc.
OpenGL renderer string: ATI Mobility Radeon X1400
OpenGL version string: 2.1.7659 Release
OpenGL extensions:
GL_AMD_performance_monitor, GL_ARB_depth_texture, GL_ARB_draw_buffers,
GL_ARB_fragment_program, GL_ARB_fragment_shader, GL_ARB_multisample,
GL_ARB_multitexture, GL_ARB_occlusion_query, GL_ARB_pixel_buffer_object,
GL_ARB_point_parameters, GL_ARB_point_sprite, GL_ARB_shader_objects,
GL_ARB_shading_language_100, GL_ARB_shadow, GL_ARB_shadow_ambient,
GL_ARB_texture_border_clamp, GL_ARB_texture_compression,
GL_ARB_texture_cube_map, GL_ARB_texture_env_add,
GL_ARB_texture_env_combine, GL_ARB_texture_env_crossbar,
GL_ARB_texture_env_dot3, GL_ARB_texture_float,
GL_ARB_texture_mirrored_repeat, GL_ARB_texture_rectangle,
GL_ARB_transpose_matrix, GL_ARB_vertex_buffer_object,
GL_ARB_vertex_program, GL_ARB_vertex_shader, GL_ARB_window_pos,
GL_ATI_draw_buffers, GL_ATI_envmap_bumpmap, GL_ATI_fragment_shader,
GL_ATI_meminfo, GL_ATI_separate_stencil, GL_ATI_texture_compression_3dc,
GL_ATI_texture_env_combine3, GL_ATI_texture_float, GL_EXT_abgr,
GL_EXT_bgra, GL_EXT_blend_color, GL_EXT_blend_func_separate,
GL_EXT_blend_minmax, GL_EXT_blend_subtract, GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array,
GL_EXT_copy_texture, GL_EXT_draw_range_elements, GL_EXT_fog_coord,
GL_EXT_framebuffer_blit, GL_EXT_framebuffer_multisample,
GL_EXT_framebuffer_object, GL_EXT_gpu_program_parameters,
GL_EXT_multi_draw_arrays, GL_EXT_packed_depth_stencil,
GL_EXT_packed_pixels, GL_EXT_point_parameters, GL_EXT_rescale_normal,
GL_EXT_secondary_color, GL_EXT_separate_specular_color,
GL_EXT_shadow_funcs, GL_EXT_stencil_wrap, GL_EXT_subtexture,
GL_EXT_texgen_reflection, GL_EXT_texture3D,
GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc, GL_EXT_texture_cube_map,
GL_EXT_texture_edge_clamp, GL_EXT_texture_env_add,
GL_EXT_texture_env_combine, GL_EXT_texture_env_dot3,
GL_EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic, GL_EXT_texture_lod_bias,
GL_EXT_texture_mirror_clamp, GL_EXT_texture_object,
GL_EXT_texture_rectangle, GL_EXT_texture_sRGB, GL_EXT_vertex_array,
GL_KTX_buffer_region, GL_NV_blend_square, GL_NV_texgen_reflection,
GL_SGIS_generate_mipmap, GL_SGIS_texture_edge_clamp, GL_SGIS_texture_lod,
GL_WIN_swap_hint, WGL_EXT_swap_control

visual x bf lv rg d st colorbuffer ax dp st accumbuffer ms cav
id dep cl sp sz l ci b ro r g b a bf th cl r g b a ns b eat

Sudo Aptitude said...

Just to clear things up,Nvidia have made Linux drivers,they are just not open source!

There are also homebrewed open source nvidia drivers.

abdulla said...

Too bad Nvidia's drivers have broken OpenGL support. Try using vertex textures exactly how their own paper describes and it completely fails.

Anonymous said...

The only reason people want the blob opened is so they can fix their non-working crap with nVidia's code.

Markus said...

There are so many valid points.

The only thing I truly appreciate so far is the programming language Ruby.

I could care less for Linux.

The biggest advantage of Linux however is that scripts etc... do all work nicely. And luckily firefox works as well.
And mplayer.

But games on linux... that is a dead area. 3D is a dead area on Linux.


And this will never change. Linux is a Server OS, it will never become a desktop OS. Why? Because the paying customers are on the Server side.

This is the inconvenient truth about it.

MacBoy said...

Re: Anonymous
June 30, 2008 7:23 PM




"...I have two great big monitors, high end (optical) audio and tv cards (HDTV), DVD and BlueRay players wireless networking, wonderful 5.1 surround sound for my many games (you know b/c they actually make games for windows) movies and tv, 2 printers, a scanner, digital camera, and more all on a custom built Vista box..."


Holy horseshit...another one of those bumlicking MicroSloth Winturd brown-noser fanboys...

How do you fit all of this shit in your mommy's basement?



"...or my many games..."


Yeah right..."games".

More likely, you are watching porn on your multiple screens while impregnating your right hand. Get a real life...get out of the house...fuck a real girl [you do know what one is, don't you?]...get a job and quit hiding in your mommy's basement.

Anonymous said...

gem... google it if you can be arsed

Mattheas said...

Just to throw this out there, blogger.com server use linux. If you hate linux so much why don't you make a windows server to host your blog on? Maybe even use a windows server running ASP.net.

Fact is, Windows Servers < Linux Servers

Gametaku said...

He hates linux, it doesn't mean he hates being lazy. He could probably stamp out the desktops, but the server side is something he'll never be able to dent.

Boston Sean said...

Nice post. I've used Linux exclusively for almost 10 years but I don't buy into the religious Stallman type bullshit. I always use Nvidia graphics and mobo chipsets when I build a new box. Who cares I have one closed source piece of code on my box. Those guys put a lot of work into thier products and they kick ass.

Thanks Nvidia for all your Linux efforts!!

kerensky said...

God I love this post.

cmatei said...

Wouldn't it be really nice if the nvidia drivers would actually also work for BASIC 2D stuff, like painting bloody windows on the screen without taking 2-3 seconds (!) to do a full screen update on a 9600GT ? Or if it didn't hang when coming out of sleep if your monitor is connected to DVI-1 instead of DVI-0 ? Or if it didn't hang at all (although rare, it's just as annoying) ?

It is definitely NOT all peachy like some of you seem to imply.

Lloyd said...

I'm too ignorant to understand most of this post; I use linux and I've compiled a kernel before, but that's about as far as my knowledge goes. Anywhere I can educate myself to understand what this is talking about (driver layers, etc.)?

Anonymous said...

> freetard
That kind of education that has the writer talks about him.

The free and open world is open to the help of programmers, documenters and so on.

Dream Master JP said...

I wholeheartedly agree with the superiority of Nvidia over the other two players. I've used Nvidia since day one and I've fallen completely in love with their linux support (it's the SGI Onyx you've never had). Obviously I'm talking about real OpenGL hardware, the Quadro FX series. I do Virtual Reality and I can't do it anywhere as well as on a linux box with a Quadro installed. Mind you I'm a devoted Ubuntu user now (after being harrassed by Redhat, Fedora, Suse and CentOS) - I still have a special place for Gentoo (and maybe Debian, because of HURD).

I cried when I found out by favorite BSD, OpenBSD, would never have Nvidia drivers but I figure that since neither Maya nor Amira were ever going to be ported to BSD, it's not really that much of a loss.

ATI lovers have only Mac for full OpenGL compliance (side from Gamecube/Wii, if you're a console hacker). Same goes for Intel (though they suck)...only Mac can show them the light.

Ray Parrish said...

Hello,

I'm a relatively new Ubuntu user, and I think the graphics in Ubuntu rock! There is no way you could get the bloated Windows operating system to provide a rotating cube of desktops to switch between without waiting for minutes between screens.

I get more work done in Ubuntu than I ever could in Windows because I'm not constantly waiting for the damn screen to re-write anymore.

I am blessed with an nVidia video card however, thanks for letting me know just how fortunate I am for having one.

I also like the ease and power of scripting applications in Linux. The included commands with a default installation make it easy to create powerful applications.

I had been thirsting for years to do some programming while using Windows, as I had lost my copy of Visual Basic, and couldn't afford to buy it again.

Now I have many languages to choose from including Gambas which works similarly to Visual Basic, in that you can drag and drop components onto forms to create your user interface, then add code to events associated with these GUI components.

Microsoft has recently released a free version of Visual Basic, but I'm not real sure you are allowed to create commercial applications with it, I haven't read the license for it that closely.

About the only thing I use Windows for lately is checking my web pages in Internet Explorer to make sure they are rendering correctly in that browser.

I do wish Ubuntu would let me use an html page for my desktop as I have always done in Windows. I have no icons at all on my windows desktop, and have javascript code running an image based clock on a wall in a library.

I also have the picture frame in the middle of the library wall changing pictures on mouseovers of the sides of the picture frame to show my friends and family's pictures.

There are also animated flames in a fireplace below the picture frame, and mousing over one of the books on the shelves brings up a tooltip, with the name of the book, and clicking on the book opens it in the my web browser.

That's about all I miss about Windows.

I hated the damn need to defrag wearing out my hard drives prematurely, not to mention the need to thrash the drives even more to scan for viruses on a regular basis.

For a while I used Windows Live One Care because it was free with my DSL connection, and it forces you to defrag at least once a week, by not having a setting for any longer of a period between schceduled defragging. It also sets a very short time period between virus scans, and basically forces them on you as well.

This is a conspiracy between Microsoft and the hard drive manufacturer's to prematurely wear out your drive so you have to buy new ones more often.

And every swinging dick that writes a program for the Windows system thinks his program has to call home every day to check for updates, so they install an update checker in the start up, which runs every time you boot up, soon there are ten or twelve of them, or more, after you've been installing programs for a while.

This alone makes security a nightmare. Ubuntu has one program which checks for the updates for all of it's installed software. Much less hassle, and it's even polite, letting you know once a day, or less, that there are new updates to download, then staying out of your hair until you decide to do it.

There are two exceptions to what I've just stated, Firefox, and Thunderbird both check for updates when you start them, but they don't install separate programs, which stay in memory all the time, to check for them.

I've never had Ubuntu "crash" on me. Firefox has on occasion frozen up on me, which requires killing it's process, but I can immediately restart it, and it will run with no problems. In Windows when the browser crashes, you have to reboot to clear the memory so things will run again.

Ubuntu can break things with their updates, as I've just learned yesterday. One of the updates I installed yesterday has broken the MPlayer application, so it will not play videos anymore, they just freeze at the first screen.

I have a bug report in on Launchpad, and have already learned that the probable cause of the problem, is pulseaudio conflicting with alsa. It might also be the AMD video chip drives that were included in the update yesterday...

Since my video card, Ethernet card, and motherboard are all nVidia based even 'though I do have an AMD Sempron 3400+ cpu in this box, I wondered why I need AMD video chips?

In the meantime Real Player, and VLC Media Player still work just fine, go figure...

I'm in favor of having more than one operating system, in case one of them breaks down, you can still use the other to go on the internet, and research your problem. It has saved my bacon on a couple of occasions already.

To be fair is was a bit difficult to get my nVidia video card configured correctly, so I could escape only having 800 x 600 to choose from in the beginning, after the initial install of Ubuntu.

At that low resolution, for some mad reason, some of Ubuntu's applications aren't smart enough to keep themselves within the boundaries of the screen. This puts some of their buttons, or other controls, off the screen where they are inaccessible, not good!

Some of the programs written for Ubuntu can be a nightmare to configure. Awstats leaps to mind. It's a server log analyzer which creates html reports of your web site traffic.

It took me nearly two days of reading and re-reading their very sketchy documentation to configure it to parse my Windows server based log files, and I never did figure out how to set the permissions correctly for their GeoIP plugin so that it would run. They even have another plugin, which requires that you install the Apache web server in order to use it to look up the cities of your web site visitors.

There is a separate script which you run on your index page which adds additional information about your visitor's browser capabilities, and things like their screen resolutions.

It adds the information to my server logs, but for some reason, the main program is unable to extract the information to add it to the html reports.

I asked for help in an Awstats forum, and actually had to email a portion of my web log to their administrator, and am now waiting to see if he can tell me why it isn't working.

But then this thread is supposed to be about Linux graphics, which I think work very well, better than the wait for the paint the screen cycle to execute every time you overlap two Windows in Windows.

I also like the ease of looking up configuration information in Ubuntu, it's all in human readable text files scattered around the system, not in one bloated, cryptic, registry file which takes forever to find anything in, and requires a special editor to make changes to.

All of my hardware worked right from the Ubuntu Live CD, with the exception of the video mode being low res, as Ubuntu didn't correctly detect my Jetway flat panel monitor.

I had to manually set the refresh rates for it's screen modes in the xorg.conf file the first time I installed. Then I found display-config-gtk, which is a gui dialog that allows you to select video card, and monitor, from brand and model lists to set the xorg.conf file.

Ubuntu isn't perfect, but then neither is Windows, and I feel a lot safer from malware while using Ubuntu, so I'll be using it for a long time to come.

Later, Ray Parrish

Ray's Links A human reviewed index of interesting and useful web sites, and articles.

Anonymous said...

This blog i fully shit!!!

Anonymous said...

I use Linux at work.
I use Linux at home.
I do everything with Ubuntu 8.10.
Browse the web. Use skype, pidgin and my webcam.
I play at World of Warcraft too, and on my same computer on WinXP WoW is slower than on Linux.

Give ATi 6 months 1 year more, and comment again on open source drivers.

Cheers,

Ps. Your blog is great for Linux. Your rants will help improve the OS a lot. Thanks again!

Antus said...

Its all quite true. I think I have bought about 5 or so nvidia graphics cards personally in the last few years, more if you include machines/servers at work all because their X driver is very good. Funny how windows has gone backwards while Linux keeps improving! :) I wonder what this new X server Wayland will deliver - the concept sounds like its barking up the right tree.

Anonymous said...

^^ nice blog!! ^@^

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Before that I used 9.3 Catalyst driver which gave me ~1500fps via glxgears and now with DRI it is like ~1760fps :D
New Xorg 1.6,new DRI driver,using Arch Linux with fresh 2.6.29 kernel,all from regular repos,working just great
Don't know about the rest,but for the older Radeon and X series cards DRI just beats fglrx-sorry dude
Not to mention the fact that the new 9.4 Catalyst drivers has dropped support for r300-500 series(all Radeons from 9600 to 9800 and whole X Series)
Weeeell it's something like this-if you want to use fresh linux fglrx drivers throw an older,completely functional card for daily desktop task in a trash bin,and buy Radeon HD soon as possible-no matter if you are not a gamer and if you use about 20% capabilites of your brand new mighty card ;)
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I'd like to submit that many casual Linux users like myself may use it simply because they like to tinker.

Really... I'm bored with the whole "Install x, y, and z products => Get out of box experience" routine.

Okay, Linux has issues. Alright, Linux has serious issues. This "I hate Linux Graphics" post helps clarify what those are. I'm frustrated with it at times too. I wouldn't put up with Windows if it did some of the things Linux does.

BUT
We like challenges. We like customization. We like a computer and operating system that we can call ours and not only product purchased from Best Buy. We like when things don't work and we have to THINK about why. We like to read this blog and try to understand what needs to change. We get satisfaction from seeing those changes.

Whether you like Linux or not, +1000 pts and 2 free interwebs to the many people who actually write something constructive or informed (good or bad) here instead of mindless bashing.

Cheers

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Linux Hater: are you ten years old. Come on dropping the f-bomb in every other sentence.

Look, LINUX IS FREE!!! If you don't like DON'T USE IT!!!

I don't see why you are so obsessed with something that you didn't pay for or don't have to use.

Linux does have it's problems. It is the least of the user friendly OS's. However, it is more for someone that is experienced with computers.

The good thing is if there is a bug, you can always fix it if you know programming.

Linux can do a lot more than Windows, if you know how to programming.

Anonymous said...

why so seriously? that's means Linux graphic is not for you! so.. shut the hell up...

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